Introduction: In this episode, Simon welcomes Jake Davey, an Instagram marketing expert, international speaker and success coach. His mission is to help speakers, coaches and industry experts get their first 10, 000 followers on Instagram and explode their brand. He is also the founder of InstaGalactic Success that utilize social media to transform the face of business, and create a platform to reach ideal customer with the level of interaction and engagement as Instagram. Listen to Jake Davey’s sharing on Instagram Marketing.

3 Valuable Insights:

• Finding structures and systems and processes that delivers high quality and value for followers
• Optimizing your profile to get followers enjoy your content
• The major factor in follower growth is consistency

(00:02) -Simon: Three, two, one, roll the footage. Welcome back everybody to the strategy sprints podcast. I'm your host, Simone Severino. And today my guest shows business owners how to build an out 10 thick audience on Instagram. His flagship program InstaGalactic follows the proven six step rocket system and shows people how to explore their brand on Instagram so they can impact on a global scale and become the leader. The authority in their field. The next big thing is working on is creating a viral reel on Instagram, work on everybody, Jake, Adam Davey.

(00:55) -Jake Davey: Simon. Thank you so much. It's great to be here, excited to chat today.

(00:58) -Simon: So cool to have the Instagram guru in the house and we will cover so much. We will cover Instagram, how to learn more, why we should work with a coach and so much more super relevant stuff. But first, what are you currently up to?

(01:16) -Jake Davey: Right now in business? Um, the biggest focus at the moment we're actually relaunching our flagship program. So you mentioned instagalactic before. Uh, the focus right now is to release the latest version. So this is 3.0, um, and this will be released next month in February, 2021. And the big reason why, um, aside from, you know, all the, all the things about wanting to make sure everything's updated and relevant because the platform changes all the time. But the big reason why is that, that how we use social media over the past 12 months has massively changed. Um, how we interact as a global community is massively changed over the past 12 months. And so some of the things and strategies and techniques and ideas that worked before 2020, or before the global pandemic don't work anymore. And actually we need to tweak some of those things. We need to adjust some of those things and we need to take a slightly different approach. And so based on testing that we've done, uh, based on the things that we've, we've, we've learned ourselves and that we've used in our own accounts, we've now got a much clearer idea of 20, 21 and beyond what the best way moving forward is to build your brand on Instagram.

(02:28) -Simon: Oh, we want to know everything. So what has really changed in where the volume has changed, but you say something has changed on, on the quality level?

(02:39) -Jake Davey: I think the volume has absolutely changed. I think the shortly after lockdown, uh, last year social media use of social media went up 40%. Um, and at the same time, I believe that the actual cost of ad spend paid advertising, uh, through Facebook and Instagram actually went down. Um, I think by about almost maybe 30%, maybe, maybe more, um, don't quote me on that, but that's just the information I've had from, from people who are more specialized in that industry. So the, the, the, the amount of people are using the platform now has massively increased. And so, because more and more people are going there, they're spending more time. There they're a lot more picky. They're a lot more selective about who they're following, who they want to, to get information from where they want to get their information from as well. And so more so than ever while there's more noise out there, uh, on social media.

(03:34) -Jake Davey: But I guess in part of our lives, because social media and zoom and such have become integral in our lives over the last year, um, there's more need than ever to stand out and be very, very specific on what you do, who you do it for and speaking directly to that particular audience and that particular, uh, person. The other thing that has changed, uh, aside from that is the response time. You know, we're, we're increasingly, as the world gets smaller and smaller, um, people expect customer service to get better and better. And so as a, as a brand, as a company, as an individual, whatever you may be, uh, for your business, then if your audience, your clients, your potential clients are connecting with you, then they're looking for responses a lot faster, and they're looking for their problems to be solved a lot faster as well. And so without spending even more time on the platform and without actually needing to, to give even more of yourself, perhaps in a, in a, um, more scattered way, it's about finding structures and systems and processes that allow you to still deliver high quality and value for your audience, for your followers, but also in a manageable way. That's not going to take away from, you know, the, the, the main things that you're working on, the main focus for your business as well.

(04:48) -Simon: Now, most people right now listening say, Oh, right, let's go to the end. Let's go, let's jump into the Instagram tactics. And some of them, we still need to onboard because some of them are thinking I'm in a, B to B business, very serious, very high ticket. I cannot say, lower Instagram. What would you say to these people? Is it relevant for them?

(05:09) -Jake Davey: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because every, no matter what level people are within their business, the company that they might have, they still have a social side. Right. And they still need to, they still need to find a way that they can relax if you like, um, connect with other people on a more social level. Um, they want to find something that's a little bit of a distraction from everyday life or whatever that may be. And so, um, probably the best analogy, almost the, the, the, the other extreme, if you like. Um, certainly in social media, um, circles will be something like LinkedIn. Um, LinkedIn is, is the, the professional side of people. It's, it's almost people with the suit on. Uh, whereas Instagram I find is totally the opposite. It's, it's, it's them in their, their casual clothes. Um, not necessarily, but metaphorically in their casual clothes, uh, a lot more laid back, a lot more relaxed, a lot more informal, but they've still got the same interests and desires and wants and needs as everybody else.

(06:06) -Jake Davey: And so you don't have to, it's not always about forging the, the best relationships and the strongest relationships on those business terms, on those more professional platforms and such when people have a social life as well. And I think if you can find those common grounds and common connections, people do business with people, and they do business with people that they, that they like and that they feel has got the, the solution to that problem. Uh, and I think if you can connect with people and show your who you are more authentically, um, it's a, it's a remarkable place to be. And so if your message is right, if you give people what they want, if you speak to their wants and their needs and solve a problem for them and do it in a, in a, uh, engaging and creative way, um, then absolutely you can, you can find your ideal, ideal audience and ideal client on there, for sure.

(06:54) -Simon: Absolutely. And so what are some examples of maybe your Instagram clients that you want to share and, and, and impact that it could have on their business to work with you?

(07:07) -Jake Davey: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So the, I mean, the majority of clients that we worked with, and again, over the past, over the past 12 months in particular, the majority of the clients that we worked with were heavily impacted by the COVID situation. You know, I, I think as much as maybe we want to look forward and we want to focus forward on what the future looks like certainly last year or within the last 12 months we've been dealing with, with, with people, um, whose livelihoods, whose businesses have been massively impacted. So, uh, the, to, to take to, um, clients, for example, in totally different industries, one of them, um, a lady, she has a holiday properties. So she has holiday properties in the UK, and they are large properties, which are great for friends, uh, you know, getting out of the city, wanting to go into the, into the countryside search, but then also great for family to get together, uh, meet in, uh, in somewhere in the UK, uh, and spend, spend time together.

(08:08) -Jake Davey: And, you know, prior to, prior to lockdown, um, you know, they have various strategies and she had very strategies for marketing, but we'd never really considered social media. Um, once we started working together and she falling jumped in, you know, just as locked down, hit March 20, 20 fully jumped in and fully bought in, she has 11 times the growth of her audience on Instagram. She's, she's, um, beyond 30,000 followers now on Instagram. But of course, it's not just about followers, followers sake. She's also fully booked for the next 18 months through her properties solely from social media, which I think is quite remarkable. And so even those types of businesses where you think it's total lockdown, total gridlock, if you like, and they can't, they can't function, she's still marketing. And she's still focused on the marketing side and getting people excited about when they can, when we can come back a lock down where we can move around what that's gonna look like.

(09:03) -Jake Davey: Um, the second example, I worked with a, uh, a lady she's a coach transformational coach. And again, a lot of her clients predominantly her clients, 95, 90, 98% of her clients prior to lockdown were offline. She was seeing people in person. She had her own practice. She went in every day, they came to her and such, and she was working with them very, very closely since the lockdown. She's not been able to do that. The practice has gone. That's been sold, um, the full transition online. She's now created her own program. Uh, it's a program that's, you know, she's offered for $5,000, um, and such, which totally just would not have existed. Um, if she, if locked down, hadn't been here and she'd have continued as normal, and now she's generated leads. She's got clients coming in there. She sold out her first launch. Uh, and she's launching again, uh, later this year. So just two examples, uh, in totally different industries, one in a physical business, and then one, uh, in a coaching space as well,

(10:04) -Simon: Growth stories in the midst of the pandemic year. It's beautiful. And we will go even deeper into that, how our audience can also experience growth after one word from our sponsors.

(10:18) -Speaker 3: Hey, if you love what you are hearing, you will love our free masterclasses. Go grab them at strategysprints.com.

(10:28) -Simon: How can people engage with you and also have growth in their audience?

(10:35) -Jake Davey: How do they grow their following? So it's a really good question. Um, but the first, the first two ones, the first one, if people want to engage with me or talk to me or find me on social media, and Instagram is the first post to go, and it's real simple. It's Jake, Adam Davey. Um, you'll find me on there. And from the account, we're sharing growth tips, ideas, and strategies to build your audience and also monetize your audience as well. Um, the process that we teach is it's a six step process, uh, for growth and monetization, uh, and it's called the rocket system. So it's R O C K E T. And that goes from the, the, uh, the initial step, which is branding or rebranding. So if you don't already have your brand in place or your, so your color schemes, the layout, the major messages that you want to share, getting clarity on who it is that you're actually speaking to, then that all comes within the rebrand section.

(11:29) -Jake Davey: First of all, as we talked about before, you need to get really, really clear on who you're speaking to, and that I know that sounds a little bit, a bit wishy-washy in a way. And some people think that why does the growth needs to start off Instagram? But it absolutely does, because if you're not clear on what you're doing and how you're actually going to go about getting in front of people, um, then it's, it's, it's not going to work. So actually getting clear on who you want to speak to, and who's going to enjoy your content, who is it for? That's the first step, then moving on to onto Instagram, it's all about optimizing your profile. So when somebody lands on your profile, when they come across, you, you are immediately positioned as the, the person that is going to solve their problem. You know, there are ways that we can pull out and pick out your expertise, um, things that are relevant to your audience, major milestones, that you've hit certifications, all these types of things, which are going to really grab the attention of your audience, positions, you as the expert.

(12:22) -Jake Davey: So naturally they want to follow you. Um, the letter C is content as your content strategy, and it's a viral content strategy. So how can you create valuable content? Your audience wants to see that's going to engage them. It's going to add value to them. It's going to get them to interact, share your content, but also as well, save your content. And this is, um, again, diving into a little bit into the technical side, but Instagram over the past 12 months, or so has experimented with removing likes. Uh, so not actually showing the number of likes that posts get. And so we're looking at other metrics. How else can you measure the effectiveness and the value of, of a post that you're sharing? If the likes are to be removed in the future? We don't know that definitely is going to be the case, but it might be.

(13:08) -Jake Davey: And actually there is the facility to save posts. This has been on there for certainly as long as I've been using Instagram the last four years or so, uh, but the ability to save posts, and if somebody is actually going in there watching your content, or they're reading your content and they save one of your posts to come back and consume later Instagram, deans, that was really, really valuable. So it's, it's another way. Or within that, that section of content, we're also looking at not just content for content's sake, but how can you really have value that people want to come back and they want to see that again and again, and there is a slight shift moving forward towards more kind of blog style content, either short form video, or even longer text within the captions of a post, um, beyond C then the letter Ks sounds for kickstart your growth, a bit of a tenuous link, but it it's a, it fits just about, um, growth.

(13:57) -Jake Davey: The major factor in growth is consistency. Uh, again, it sounds simple, like it's one of those things, it's, it's a, it's real, real simple to follow while it's maybe sound easy, but it's not necessary simple to follow. Um, but being consistent, showing up every single day, making sure that your content is, um, on brand it's on message. And it speaks directly to your audience. That's absolutely vital. Um, hashtags. I mean, we could talk all day about hashtags. That's another area that allows you to reach a huge audience, but the number one thing that I'm excited about for growth at the moment.

(14:31) -Simon: I have a question about hashtags, how do come up with the right one?

(14:34) -Jake Davey: Sure. How'd you come up with the right hashtags? So there's two, two things I would recommend for hashtags. Uh, the first thing is absolutely look at your one hand, the market leaders or other experts within your space, the people that your ideal client or your ideal audience are already following, who are they already following, who already out there is serving the needs of your ideal audience, and then look at the hashtags that they use.

(15:01) -Jake Davey: And there's no magic formula. There it's a case of looking at modeling the type of hashtags that they are using. That's definitely the first step. The second step is there's the, there are tools out there, one in particular called flick hashtags, F L I C uh the website is flick.tech. So F L I C K dot T E C H flick.tech. And that connects directly with Instagram. So you're getting kind of real time, or as real as possible data feedback from Instagram, which tells you the best type of hashtags that are working now, it shows you the type of hashtags that you can use, where you're also going to get the most or the maximum amount of visibility because not every hashtag is equal. And so finding the ones where if you add those to your posts, then you're going to get the maximum amount of visibility.

(15:51) -Jake Davey: And then the third thing that I would recommend with hashtags is that you use a combined range of very, very, um, popular hashtags. One, I use very frequently those in kind of the mid-range, which have got maybe a few thousand, a few tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of views, and then go for ones which are very, very specific. Uh, and, uh, you know, there might only be, say fewer than a thousand, fewer than 10,000 posts with those particular hashtags up so that it allows you to show up in different areas. And yes, the most popular hashtags you're going to be more visible in those areas. The ones that are more, less frequently used kind of in the mid-range, you'll show up in people's feeds at different times. And then the ones where they're use a lot less frequently, those particular hashtags, they're going to stick around on the platform for a lot longer.

(16:38) -Jake Davey: So a blend of those different types of hashtags is going to have a big impact for you as well. Um, so  those are kind of the main, main areas that I would suggest. The other thing I would, I would highly recommend for growth at the moment, which, um, I I'm getting very excited about of course, are Instagram reorgs. And right now Instagram is favoring reels quite incredibly. So if you are a content creator, if you are an expert, if you want to build your brand on, on Instagram, then reels has to be the way to go. Um, in the, certainly in the short to medium term, you know, creating reels consistently, uh, and using the new feature that Instagram has created, that's going to be a big, a big impact for you as well.

(17:24) -Simon: I am so curious who you pick as the nominee for a strategy award, if it's an Instagrammer or else who gets nominated.

(17:34) -Jake Davey: Yeah, that's a good question. So the, the person that I I'm going to nominate, um, is my mentor. So my mentor is, uh, somebody called Paulo Marni. And I think that the, I think the thing that I, I like so much, or if you like he, where he zigs and everybody else's zag, his business for a long time was offline. It was based on events. And, uh, you know, he shows business owners and entrepreneurs how to leverage social media effectively for their business and grow their business. And, um, prior to lockdown again, the majority of, of the business and the way that that training was delivered was through live events. But, um, that totally had to move online. And we were in a space and he was in a space, um, where at the time through lockdown, and certainly for the early days of lockdown, a lot of people were letting members of their team go.

(18:28) -Jake Davey: They were letting staff go and such, and actually he went totally the opposite way and, and quite a bold move, but he, he actually built up the team and brought more people in because he knew the value of social media of marketing. Um, and if that could be done right and effectively, and I know that he's done that, um, from the consistent growth of the business, um, but it really, really paid off. So that was quite exciting. And as I say, it was a, it was a huge time of uncertainty, right. A huge time of uncertainty, but we were looking around and I was looking around and seeing a lot of people losing their jobs, of course, very sad, losing their jobs, losing their work lives and the positions that they had. Um, but his approach was totally the opposite, which is let's, let's actually build the team.

(19:10) -Jake Davey: Let's bring more people in, uh, and how can we use this as an opportunity to help more people move online.

(19:16) -Simon: Powerful, the three books that shaped you most?

(19:21) -Jake Davey: Um, so the first one is, is I'm going to the first one is called dotcom secrets by Russell Brunson. Um, I'm not going to say it when I think of it now, it's maybe not the, the, the book that I would immediately go to, um, or one that I think I need to pick up and read or reread again. Um, however, when I first started online and building an online business, um, moving out of teaching, I was a teacher for eight years moving out of teaching and moving to an online business. That was the first book that was recommended to me, uh, dot com secrets and it front to back gives you a very, very clear idea of how to set up a successful online business and totally transforms the approach that most businesses have through the idea of funnels.

(20:10) -Jake Davey: And for me, it just, just made total sense. And it's one of the books that I recommend people when they first get started, uh, but building an online business. The second thing that I'd recommend, uh, I've actually got a copy of it here. Um, I, and this is, this is another, my mentors. This is a book called how to make one, how to make one hell of a profit and still get to heaven. This is, um, this is by somebody called Dr. John Demartini. Um, I love the book, uh, I guess it addresses the, the kind of fear that a lot of people have that, that it's bad to earn money, or it's a negative thing, or, you know, you shouldn't do the old or rich people, all these kind of like maybe, um, um, uh, things that are maybe built in maybe from being younger or whatever that may be about wealth building and such.

(21:05) -Jake Davey: Um, but it gives, it gives a fantastic, um, I just think it gives a fantastic perspective on actually the value that you give. If the more people you can have, the wealth that you accumulate, the more people you can actually help and serve. Um, and of course, you know, people have their own reasons for wanting to build wealth and grow wealth and earn money and such. But I think if you're, if your heart's in the right place and your values are aligned, um, and you align what you do with your values, then you can get handsomely paid and do the things that you really enjoy doing and love doing as well. Um, I would highly recommend reading that book. It's, it's, it's fantastic also in terms of finance management as well. Um, the third book that I would, I was tempted to recommend, uh, highly tempted to recommend this called shoe dog by Phil Knights, but I've got a that's the founder of, of Nike or Nike, uh, as they call it in the, in America.

(22:00) -Jake Davey: But I'm not gonna recommend that one. Um, cause I think other people maybe on the show, might've already recommended that, um, even though he's fantastic. So the other one I'm going to, I'm going to recommend is called profit first and it's by a guy called Mike McCullough. It's um, you're not in Simon, so, and looking around some guys here, I have it here. Um, yeah. So I'm guessing you, you've kind of, you've got that. So, um, I just, I, I, it's not, you know, it's not the kind of thing that you got to sit down and, and absolutely love reading or anything like that. Let's say it's probably written cause it's really not, but there's just, it's just very, very clear that the approach that a number of businesses seem to have an even, you know, when you speak to accountants, the idea of this is the profit.

(22:45) -Jake Davey: This is the last, and then, you know, this is, this is the profit you should've made from the year. And then people tend to turn to their bank account and they say, where's the money. Um, because it's been spent on X, Y, Z, whatever that might be. And so the most valuable thing that I took from the book profit first is, is a way to structure your finances within your company. Um, within my, uh, so within personal finances, I follow something which I first learned from T Harvecker at the millionaire mind intensive, um, something called the six jar system. And that's something I follow in my personal finances, but I didn't have any the equivalent in my business finances and having read profit first that gave me a very, very clear, um, uh, way to divide up the income that comes into the business.

(23:35) -Jake Davey: So I know, um, that there's always going to be always going to be profit for the business that, that, that obviously can be taken out, but there's enough to pay my salary. There's enough to pay for the, the, the, uh, expenses of the business and running the business and for team and outsources and people that we bring in marketing as well. And there's always that money set aside for tax, you know, and, and, and such that needs to be paid. And so, even though it's not the most exciting part of the business, but for some people, um, it's essential. And even if I just say suggest, you know, if, if people kind of don't necessarily focus a lot on that side of the business, I, and I certainly haven't, hadn't previously, it was an area that brought a lot of clarity for me. And it, it brought me a lot of, um, comfort as well to think that I could have those processes in place.

(24:19) -Simon: It has changed my life and the way I run the business and people, when you implement it and you should implement it really, uh, your accountants will hate you and they will push back and they will say, no, that's not the way the industry does it. And you have to tell them, okay, I'm not the accounting industry. I am the CEO, and this is what I need. Your reports will have first profits, then cost then cashflow, and then all the boring stuff that only you have to care about. But on page one, I have in real time now the profits, the costs and the cash flow and everything is I just check once a month, but this things I check every second day and I want to see them in real time and latest every seven days, you should get that from your accountants team. And this is what you learn in that book and your account. This will hate you, and we'll take maybe one month to change the way you get reports, but it will, it might even save your business in a pandemic year because profits is what you need, not revenue.

(25:22) -Jake Davey: Absolutely. Absolutely.

(25:25) -Simon: Yeah, and so cool, yeah, that book amazing. And what did you recently change your mind about?

(25:33) -Jake Davey: Um, controversial, but clubhouse is something that I've recently changed my mind about. Um, th th th th the first thing I'd say about it is, uh, what a wonderful bit of marketing for, for club house in that, uh, over Christmas. Uh, I think I was sat at home one day and I never heard of it. I had no idea what it was, and within our group chat on WhatsApp, somebody had just put the question, are you guys in clubhouse yet? Um, and certainly by the end of the day, I had managed to get on clubhouse and I was addicted. I've listened to four or five, six hours of it straight. Um, and so just from that perspective, you know, for them marketing and the way that they kind of, their growth strategy that they have in place at the moment is fantastic. And, and total Fairplay to them, for me to never have heard of it, and then to want to be on it and have to be on it.

(26:25) -Jake Davey: By the end of the day, it was, it was pretty incredible. Um, but the, and for a number of days after I spent a lot of time listening to it and thinking, how do I get more people connected and following me and all this kind of stuff. And so, but I've changed my mind about it, and that's not any criticism, all of the platform. And, you know, it may look a complete fall in 12 months time when it's the most valuable thing that anybody could ever use. But the reason I changed my mind about it is because actually thought I don't need to be on it right now. What I really need to do is keep focusing on the things that have been working in my business. I need to focus on the goals that I've set myself. You know, I spent a good amount of time through late December, early January, focusing on goals for this year, and then I wasn't implementing and executing on them, uh, because I was spending time elsewhere and actually thinking, no, I, I, there's a reason why I've set these goals and set these targets.

(27:18) -Jake Davey: I know these things work. And actually, I just want to focus on doing what, what, what I know works. And one of the biggest, it kind of comes back to one of the biggest shifts that I had last year. Um, and the biggest kind of breakthroughs I had last year personally, within my own business was when I stopped looking at other people, you know, there's, there are many, many other Instagram experts out there. There's many people out there that, that, that do a fantastic job as well. And I'd spend too much time watching them, buying their products, watching their webinars, following them on Instagram, reading their blogs, watching them on YouTube, all this kind of stuff, and comparing myself. And as soon as I stopped doing that and I made a commitment, stopped doing that and start delivering on the value that I know I can deliver and the knowledge that I already have, I just needed the competence to do it. Um, that was a massive shift for me. And so in a way it's been the same with clubhouse, not to say, and I can say it's going to be a fantastic tool, and I am a little bit excited about it, just talking about it. And a lot of people are. Um, but for me at the moment, I've changed my mind about whether I want to spend time on at the moment. I don't want to spend time on it. I want to focus on the things that have been working really well.

(28:28) -Simon: I think this is really wise, and I am curious, so how did you raise your level of confidence because you, you are very good at what you do. Uh, but when you reduced the number of things you're engaged in, what was the internal conversation? What made it possible for you to regain your confidence?

(28:50) -Jake Davey: Um, yeah, that's a good question. Um, so the, uh, I guess the time that it happens comes back to, and I feel a bit bad because it's been a constant thread throughout our conversation, but we can't, nobody can get away from it. But the thing was, it was the, um, it was the, the, the pandemic and having to move online. And a lot of, you know, a lot of my income previously for the business was live events and speaking on stage and searching and coaching in person, um, which I still love. Uh, as I said, my background is as a teacher. So I love doing that. Um, but it was sitting at home and realized, well, I can't do those things anymore. And I can't do this and I can't do this and I can't do this. So I, I have to commit to doing it.

(29:39) -Jake Davey: Um, and I have to get out there and, and kind of put my money where my mouth is and start doing all the things that I, I know work. Um, I need to get supportive with them. I need to get guided with them, maybe I need. And I took advice on from, from coaches and experts and other people that I work with that I know, um, I've had great success with, with these things as well. Um, so it, so it was partly driven by the fact that I had to change, but it was also greatly inspired by the people that I had around me and very fortunate with the network and connections that I have. I feel very fortunate all the time. I genuinely genuinely do. Um, but just leveraging those networks and those connections, and if nothing else, for that knowledge and feedback and ideas and suggestions about what I could do, giving me a bit of confidence and a bit of a kind of, uh, believing in me when perhaps sometimes I didn't, um, had a real big impact. And so I'd say that, that, that was the main thing.

(30:41) -Simon: People, this guy is legit. Check him out, Jake, Adam, Davey, and Jake, who should be my next guest.

(30:52) -Jake Davey: Um, it's a great question. I think that I've actually nominated Paul. So I mentioned Paul, my mentor before Paulo Marni. Um, I think he will be a fantastic guest to the podcast. He's highly entertaining. He's extremely knowledgeable. Um, and, uh, he, he will be a fantastic guest. So I would suggest he is. He's a definite, um, the other person I've mentioned, uh, mentioned his book before I had the pleasure of interviewing him on, on, um, on my podcast last year. That was Dr. John D Martini. And if you get the opportunity to interview him as well and speak to him, I would highly recommend that as well.

(31:26) -Simon: So much Jake for being on the show and sharing all your wisdom with us. Keep rolling, man, come back soon. Thank you.

(31:33) -Jake Davey: You so much. I really appreciate it. So I'm going to keep doing the great work that you're doing. It's, it's fantastic and really inspiring for me as well. Thank you.