In this episode, Simon welcomes Jane Sagalovich, the founder of Scale Your Genius. She is an expert in business, finance, and strategy. Most great people have achieved their greatest success just one step beyond their greatest failure. Listen to how Jane Sagalovich share failures and mistakes with others to achieve success in her business.

3 Valuable Insights

• Failure often leads to career success
• Talk to others about your failures
• Sometimes, there's no right or wrong answer

Show Notes

(00:02) Simon: Welcome back everybody to the strategist Sprints podcast. I'm Simone Severino, your host. And today my guest is founder of Scale Your Genius and the creator of the thriving online program accelerator. As a business strategist and scaling expert, she guides experts who are ready to better monetize their expertise, further their reach and design a life of abundance and freedom to create results driven, profitable, and sustainable online programs. Welcome everybody. Jane Sagalovich

(00:44) Jane Sagalovich: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

(00:46): Simon: So cool to have you here you are living the dream from Ukraine to Denver living the American dream.

And we will talk about how to stop striving for perfection and instead start focusing on client impact, which is so important right now. And Jane, tell us what are you currently creating?

Jane Sagalovich (01:10):

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my core business is helping experts create online courses. And you know, what's pretty funny is if you had asked me that question about a year ago, I would have told you all the other things I'm doing and when the pandemic hit, it became so clear and so obvious that this is exactly the thing that pretty much every expert out there needs as our lives were forced into a ditch and our businesses were forced into a digital format. Anyway. So the only thing I'm doing is focusing on helping experts create online programs. It's the thing, you know, we need one, we're not allowed to see other people, but it's also a model that's so relevant, even when, hopefully sometime soon again, we'll be able to do things in person. The online business, the online program model never becomes irrelevant. So I'm really just a hundred percent all in, on, on this model, which for my, for my brain that loves to multitask. It's a hard thing to do.

(02:03) Simon: It's super relevant business model and people who come to you, do they come ready and say, this is the model I want, help me build it. Or do they come and say, Hm, let's improve my revenue. And then you influence them towards the model.

(02:21) Jane Sagalovich: You know, that's a great question. And people come at all different stages. So some, you know, we'll kind of take the, the, the, um, awareness journey. So some at the beginning, just say, okay, I have this business, I'm serving my clients. I'm maybe charging an hourly rate. Maybe I have a good program, but I know I can make more. And they've seen models online courses being one of them, but they're not totally sure which model is the right one for them. So that's on the early stage of the spectrum. And so for them, I help I dive into their business with them and I help them determine exactly what is the best next step for them. And for some people that may be courses, um, with other experts, I work in making their one-on-one services better to prepare them to then scale to the online course model.

(03:05) Jane Sagalovich: On the other side of the spectrum are the people who are like online courses. Yes, this is for me, this is mine. They may have, um, you know, they've downloaded the freebies. They may have, there's a lot of courses on how to create courses out there. So they may have taken one of those along the way. And they still can't create something that they feel proud of or it just doesn't sell. So those are the ones who really just need some fine tuning with what it is they've created to help them make it successful in salable

(03:36) Simon: Let's talk about failure. The first online course that I launched had exactly one client. And that was when I realized, Oh, I should launch before it's ready. Building one year and then launching. So I learned it the hard way. Do you still see this happening? How do we approach that topic?

(03:57) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. You know, and that's a great, great, great question. And I, and I know people say launch it before you build it. And I want to clarify what that actually means in a way that works, because I think, you know, there's the entrepreneur that's like, yeah, go, go like that. They hear that. And they're like, cool. I'll put a marketing, you know, a sales page out there. And then I get clients. And then I build something that doesn't work for most. That's a little too ad hoc. And when you were talking about creating something truly awesome, that's just a little too loose. So the strategy that I do think works really well is creating the framework first, understanding the problem you want to sell, solve for your clients that are going to take that course. Then you start speaking to them, right? So I have a process.

(04:40) Jane Sagalovich: I take my clients through called the dream clients are revealed, and that's when they talk to at least 20 people who are in their ideal client's demographic about the course they want to create. So it's not validation because until someone actually gives you money, nothing is ever validated. You know, I'm sure you know, you and your audience know that, but it does give you some feedback. It gives you some insight and nuance that you might not have known. Now, once you have that feedback, what I recommend most people have by the time they launch is a very strong onboarding module and then module one and then a pretty clear framework for the rest of the program. So they, they didn't spend too much time creating it, but they put a lot of thought and effort into building the foundation so that when they do have a successful launch and it's totally possible to have successful launches, they're prepared to build out the rest of the program. So it's kind of a combination of, of, you know, have the whole thing built out versus launch and then build there's like the middle ground

(05:43) Simon: I learned from, from my boss, I had the privilege to have a boss who was brighter about leadership. And so, and then he, he would have five days per week of training on leadership. And he wrote, he would write down four years, two, three years the questions, the objections of the participants. And then he would move the content in a folder, in a physical folder until he wouldn't move anymore. And after a couple of years it would move anymore. He would give it to the editor and say, that's the new book because he knew now that content is ready. Yeah. And so I tried to transpose that into this digital world where we launch our staff and I do it similarly, I consult. So I use the tools and the content for a couple of months, until years until I know now it's, it's working most of the time it's ready. And then it becomes something digital. What's, what's the process that your client seemed to seem to have best experiences with how to test, how to validate.

(06:51) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. And that is an excellent question. And I love the story you shared about, you know, the physical folder that turns into a book. And the parallel that we use in the online course world is, so what I have my clients create is the first step is what I call a hybrid online course. And that is, you know, they have the digital modules. That is what most of us think of as an online course, but then they provide group support and, or one-on-one support. So they're having actual conversations with the people who are taking the course. So what happens is exactly what you're talking about. People are going to start asking questions. And when you get a question about your course, chances are, they're something that wasn't very clear in the course. And I'll clarify if you're, if you're getting the same question from multiple people, right?

(07:32) Jane Sagalovich: One-off questions, you know, people, people will ask what they ask, but if you start to notice patterns, every single person, or a lot of people are asking the same questions, that means something in your course needs to be clarified or added or improved or whatever it is. So same as your story with the book. Once they stopped getting similar questions about the course, then it is ready to be a fully automated experience. Then they can sell that, you know what people consider the passive income course that doesn't take, it's never zero of your time. You know, we all know that there's always some that, that, that happens that needs to be upgraded, but that's the course that does not need your support. And so by having support model first and fielding all those questions and understanding where the gaps in the information are, you can then fill in the gaps and launch a fully automated course product that answers all the questions that may have come up.

(08:24) Jane Sagalovich: Now, the mistake that a lot of creators make is they create just an automated course and never talk to the people. So, you know, we hear about those ratios, you know, 90%, whatever of the people never finished the course. And if you're the creator of one of those courses, who's not providing a support. You have no idea why they're not finishing the courses, right? They're not giving you that feedback. So you don't know what to improve. So same idea by having conversations with the people, you're able to help them improve. So you're validating it. But what you're actually doing is you have a high priced premium program that you're selling to people. So you're making full revenue. It is a very profitable business model while you're learning from your audience, from your clients, what needs to happen for it to be a more passive income, fully automated course model.

(09:12) Simon: We are discussing a lot in our community group coaching versus one-to-one coaching. I am so excited to hear your perspective.

There is much to be said about group coachings that can be an easy start into validating the content. They are more scalable on the other side. Many say, yeah, but real transformation happens only when you go deep one to one, what's your experience.

(09:50) Jane Sagalovich: Such a great question. And I see exactly what you see. People jump into the group model, thinking it is just like they jumped into the online course model. They think, okay, this is the answer for me to scale my one-on-one practice. Group programs can be incredible with the right facilitation with a well-designed group with properly held group sessions. It is so much more powerful than one-on-one or can be because learning from other people's experiences in many topics is a really, really powerful process for people. You know, we don't know, we may not think of a question, but someone else in the group does. And so we learn from them. So that's on the pro. On the cautionary side. As I, you know, the first thing I said is it has to be properly facilitated group. Group facilitation is not a skill. Most of us just automatically have.

(10:43) Jane Sagalovich: Many people have and it's amazing if that's you then a group program, it probably is a right path for you, Everyone else, I want to caution to, um, get those skills to fine tune the group, facilitation skills, facilitating a group. If you've been coaching one-on-one, facilitating a group is not the same as bringing in 10 one-on-one clients in one room and try to do the same kind of conversations with them. So if you do that, that's not going to, that's not going to be a good experience. So the fine-tuned answer is group, groups are amazing if they're done properly. Um, you know, the last thing you asked was can it go as deep as one-on-one. One of the models that I see working really well is group and one-on-one. So, um, and actually in digital modules. So you have digital modules that take them through the process.

(11:27) Jane Sagalovich: The group provides inspiration, provides learning from each other, and then one-on-one. And especially if these are either really sensitive topics where there are some things that people just not, are not going to share in a group or, um, like really nuanced stuff. So in business. So for example, for my work, the work I do with anyone, clients is not always valuable to other people. So I do a lot of one-on-one support because we get deep into particular business model that doesn't necessarily have a lot of practical applications to others. So having those conversations in a group setting would just be a waste of time. So I think the very long, that was a long way to say both, you know, all of these models have a place. All of them can be done incredibly well. And I caution people to not just jump in because that's what other people are doing to really understand what it takes to do it right and successfully, and to have, you know, how do you facilitate that group program that doesn't just allow you to scale your time, but it's actually beneficial for the clients you put into that group.

(12:28) Simon: You have not a chance to pick one person for a strategy award. 

(12:36) Jane Sagalovich: You know what? I actually had to give it some thought, and this is surprising. Even to me, I picked Elon Musk and I have this like total love, hate relationship with his Twitter. You know, when I, when I read his, his tweets, which is the extent of our relationship, um, but I love how he goes against the mainstream as a high profile CEO. I know in the coaching space, that's kind of a lot of it. Well, you know, it's, it's easier for us to kind of buck the trend, to go against the mainstream, but we don't see a lot of high powered high profile. People do that. And so I love the example that he's setting that even at that level of success, even at that level of visibility, and, you know, you can arguably say that his fall would be much, much deeper than, you know, than, than, than a lot of the rest of us. That for him to have the courage to really pave his own path in a way that no one has before him and buck a lot of the common, you know, quote unquote common sense that we see in the business world, I think is pretty cool.

(13:36) Simon: Absolutely. And I'm also a fan and an investor. And since, since three months, uh, it went up 50%, I think, just, just in the last three months. So yeah, absolutely well picked. And, um, so tell us more about the experience your clients go through and the challenges in creating online courses. And so what should we not do when we create an online course?

(14:03) Jane Sagalovich: Oh, so many things. Um, one of the things that I see really well-meaning experts do, and especially ones who have years of content, um, they think that packaging content online is an online course. And I make the, I make the distinction of information is information. And online course is actually a process. Now you're using the content that you have in that process, but that's not what creates the process. So you start with a process in mind, you're saying, I want to get my client from point A to point B when they are client, in my course, what is the content I have that would support their journey versus what I see a lot of people deal with saying, well, I have this book or I have these blogs, or I have these worksheets workbooks, let me put them online and call it a course. And the experience is just not cohesive. Um, and that's what I call like that's free information, it is free, right? We can go on Google. We can go on YouTube, Podcasts. I mean, there's so much amazing free information out there. What creates value in a course is the step-by-step process. You're able to take your client through that creates a specific result.

(15:06) Simon: I'm also interested in pricing because we are discussing this also a lot in our community. There is this one model that says, okay, go free, free, free, free, and very expensive. And then there is this other model of an as Ascension, there's always such a model where you go in steps up and we are seeing different things succeed. But I'm really curious about your perspective on, on pricing courses. Yeah,

(15:34) Jane Sagalovich: Absolutely. So, you know, the blanket statement I'm going to make is you can make any, like anyone can make any strategy work, right? The success is kind of in the nuance of it. So either one of these strategies can work. I'm a fan, that's the former one free stuff. And then really pricey, you know, four you're providing value. You're allowing somebody to get to know you to a level that now they're willing to invest two, five, 10, $50,000 with you. So the amount of relationship creation has to be pretty deep before somebody is able and willing to spend that kind of money to work with you. So I am a big believer and a lot of free content for them to get to know you, to resonate with you and then become your clients, the Ascension model. Again, I'm not an expert in that one.

(16:24) Jane Sagalovich: So I'm going to speak kind of briefly about it. But what I see is, you know, it's kind of, I, I use the example of, if you're going to buy a BMW, you're not going to buy a key chain first, right? You don't go into a BMW dealership and they're like, Hey, here's the S you know, given the $7 and we're going to give you this key chain, then we're going to give you the jacket. Then we're going to give you, you know, whatever the, the back, that BMW backpack they sell you the car. Right? And so that's kind of how I look at the Ascension model. I don't want to say it doesn't work. I know there's amazing experts out there making money from it. So for me, in how I teach sales and marketing is it actually has to make sense and feel good. So I don't need someone to pay me $7 to eventually pay me six thousands. Um, I'd rather give them the $7 thing for free and then, you know, inspire them to want to be my clients I'm way down the road. So I'm definitely a fan of the former model.

Speaker 1 (17:18): And there are many examples, I think, where it works. If, if we watch Tim Ferris free podcast, free podcast, free podcast, high ticket event, um, Jerry Seinfeld free show, free show, free show, very expensive show. Then, uh, Google, 80 percent of everything we search is free. And then a very small fraction, uh, is paid. And it's, it's good enough for them to make even, even very good profits. So there is about,

(17:53) Jane Sagalovich: You know, I'll say one more thing. And I saw, um, a colleague doing this strategy and, and, and, and so what this person was doing is they were, they had this event that the masterclass that I think we're all used to masterclass is being free and she was charging $7 for it. And, you know, masterclasses are a lead generation for us, right? And so when we bring people to a masterclass to a webinar, part of it is to give value. But the other part of it is to build our list to then market to later. And so by, by putting so $7 did two things, one, it created a big disconnect in the minds of the people looking at the sales page, they're like seven, like why would I spend an hour to get $7 worth of value? That makes no sense. And then fewer people register. So then her list is much smaller too, as a result of that. So not only does she not get the people that could potentially become clients, she also said this weird price ceiling in their mind of what the value is. And so, you know, people who want to do the low price things have to be really careful.

(18:54) Simon: Oh, that's interesting that from the client perspective, it says, I put in one hour and I get the value of seven, right?

(19:03) Jane Sagalovich: My time is worth a hell of a lot more than $7 an hour, you know? So that's what happens when we go cheap.

Speaker 1 (19:11):

Absolutely. What are the three books that influenced you most? Hmm.

(19:17) Jane Sagalovich: So the first one, and this is one of my favorite ones to recommend in gift is the big leap by gay Hendricks. Um, and it talks about the upper limit problem, right? As we evolve, as we grow as business owners, as humans, we always want to come back to comfort and to grow there. There's some, there's some stretchy discomfort that needs to happen. And this is the best book that I've read on, on how to, how to handle that. Um, so that's the first one. It's funny, all three books are kind of similar ideas and you could tell what I, you know, you could kind of assume what I struggled with in my corporate to entrepreneur shifts. Um, the second one is how to stop feeling like Shift, by Andrea Owen. And she goes into some common, um, things that people go like, people pleasing, um, come on to the other ones.

(20:02) Jane Sagalovich: She had some upper limits stuff in there too. It's just like things that make us feel like, but shouldn't and what to do about them. So really how to just feel better in everyday life. Um, and then the final one is Bernay, Brown's the gifts of imperfection. Um, I talk a lot about perfectionism being something that has held me back in life. Um, well first that helped me and then it held me back and it's something I'm constantly unwinding. And so just this false idea of perfection is something that, um, I think is so important for a lot of us to unwind. And her book is one of the best ones to guide us through that process.

Speaker 1 (20:36): I think this is one of the Britney Brown books that I don't know, so I will read it. And, uh, what, what, what does she go through? What are, what are the main insights

(20:50) Jane Sagalovich: It is? So it was one of her first book. It was one of her earlier books. Um, it's really the importance of vulnerability and how being real versus perfect is the way we can connect deeper to other people and also ourselves. Um, and it's, I need to, I need to read it again. It was one of those, like I listened to once a year or so. It was, I was gifted, um, at a few years ago by a friend of mine and yeah, the con the, the underlying, the common theme is again, kind of that perfectly, you know, we think perfectionism is what we're striving for versus, you know, versus the gift is in the vulnerability is in the imperfection. That's the true connection between us and other people is in our imperfections.

(21:36) Simon: Yeah. I love this, this question being real versus being perfect as a content creator as an online course creator. And this is such an important question that I ask myself every day, couple of times, which backgrounds to use, which voice to use, a stage voice, or the real voice, I am at home right now, but I'm also like on TV right now. So do I take stage voice or real voice, uh, how much project, the background, what we wear, how much we prepare, we can go for perfection and high quality and high production value. We can go for documentation of the journey, being real, sharing, sharing the path and not even knowing the, the, the, the outcome and the destination. And if we get there and there is both value in, in both ways. And, um, how do you see that and how do you help your clients navigate that?

(22:37) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. And that's such a great question. And I don't remember where I heard this, but this was the biggest mind shift for me on the topic. It is when we strive for perfection, it's all about us and our own ego. It's our desire to look good, to sound good, to be perceived as, you know, filling your adjectives. Versus when we focus strictly on the impact we get to make on our clients, we take our ego out of it. It's like, it might not be it. So it's no longer about how are you perceived? It's about what is the impact you're making on the people you're working with. And so really focusing with that in mind. So I sent an email the other day to my list, and I had a stupid grammatical error that I caught, of course, after the email went out and grammar is one of those things that like, my perfectionist hat is on strong.

(23:22) Jane Sagalovich: So I sat there being like, Oh my God, do I need to send a correction? Like, what do I do there? You know, and it's all, it was all my ego, right? Like, what are they gonna think about me? They're gonna think I'm an idiot. They're gonna think, you know, she's not qualified. They're gonna think all this stuff that probably not a single person thought because it's, you know, one misuse of an apostrophe who, you know, whatever in the, in the grander scheme of things, it's not too bad, but my ego was so not having it. And so it was really then creating that shift. Like, you know, what the value, the point of that email was to bring this specific kind of value to the people, read to the people, reading it. And I got that across. Um, now adding to that is the concept of excellence.

(24:02) Jane Sagalovich: So I, you know, I do still think there needs to be level of Polish. Um, if that is, if that is your brand, I know there's a lot of people who are actually kind of on the fly. They don't want the Polish, their brand is all about more, um, can just that they're beating their own drum and it's not polished. You know, I come from the corporate world. So for me, Polish means a specific thing. Um, and so for me, it feels good to still have that in there. But even as I say it, I know that's still kind of the perfectionism ego side. It's if there's no value to the client, to it, then it's just about me.

(24:37) Simon: And this is also important. What is Polish and them and the volume, because also how often, how much content should we create? Again, something that we discuss in every mastermind in every community, how much content should they put out per week, once a week, twice a week, every day. And then there is something that was really freeing us up. When, when Gary V said, Hey, don't create anything, just document. So liberating first that a CEO like him can say to all of us, Hey, just document, that's valuable per se. But on the other side, if you, if you have the, the excellence and vision and the certain level of quality, you say, but that's not polished enough. It's, it's not, I didn't give my best yet. So when do we know this is valuable and it's for the greater community, so let it go.

(25:40) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. I, you know, I think that documenting, I'm not the biggest fan of Gary V I think he's done a lot of good things for the entrepreneurial world. His business model is very, very, very different than probably anyone listening to this right now. So I think that's something we really need to keep in mind when we look at people like him and what works for them. What does Gary selling, you know, at the end of the day, like his business model is very different than ours. So I think it's, um, he's a lifestyle brand. That is, that is what he is. Um, I'm not. So For me, you know, if I'm just documenting, that's not valuable to my audience who are looking at ways to grow their business. So, you know, flipping that back to the idea of is this value to your audience. It may or may not be. And I think that is the first question to ask is, is there a value in value that could be inspiration? You know, it doesn't have to be like bullet points and PowerPoint, right? It's it could be an inspiration. Like, see what my light know, this is what your life could be like as if you do X, Y, Z, this is, you know, what's possible for you. So there is documentation, or like, these are the flaw, you know, the mistakes that, that pitfalls to look out for. So there's value in documentation, but again, like it's, what is the value to, to the people, you know, you're creating for them. I think

(27:02) Simon: This is so crucial, the mission, who are we doing this for? Where are they right now? How can we serve? And, um, as you say, depending on, on how we can serve, it can be of best value just to share what we are just experiencing and I'm sharing the journey, or it might be creating something and putting in many, many hours and days to bring something that is so good, that it will help.

(27:34) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. And there's no right or wrong answer. I think as long as we start with a question of what will serve my audience now.

(27:44) Simon: I am so curious. What did you recently change your mind about?

(27:49) Jane Sagalovich: You know, what's so funny. It was, I changed my mind all the time. I changed my mind about like, I have no, I'm not one of those people who like, gets an idea on that and that is it. Like, I love, I'm a lifelong learner, so I just love ideas. So, um, everything is, is, is, is the best, the insight I got for you. I'm just, yeah. I think I really couldn't think of a single thing that felt significant, you know, that felt like a significant shift. I'm always, like, I think I'm always just changing my mind.

(28:18) Simon: Are there any habits or routines that help you stay creative? Stay on track.

(28:25) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. Um, my morning routine is non-negotiable. Um, I wake up, I do some meditation and journaling. My phone is on, do not disturb until 8:00 AM. I I'm up around five. So that's about three hours of time that no one else's agenda gets to, um, interrupt mine. Um, so really connecting with my heart soul, my brain what's going on in inside of me. And then, um, and then I do whatever I want. So it could be a workout. It could be writing content. It could be, you know, going on Facebook messenger. It's kind of like, I just allow myself to be inspired. And so that really allows my day to start with so much intention and so much focus. Um, and then the other thing that has really been a game changer is whenever I create any kind of contents, whether it's free content or stuff for my paid courses is really visualize my clients that I'm taught my potential client that I'm talking to and where they are. And like really, really like, feel like, feel them sitting in front of me or standing in front of me and talk directly to them as I write. Um, not only does it inspire me and make it feel, make it a much more better feeling process than just like sitting on the computer, typing a bunch of stuff. Um, it also ends up being a much more impactful experience for them too, because you know, that that energy exchange can be felt for them too.

(29:46) Simon: Do you use always the same client archetype or do they change?

(29:51) Jane Sagalovich: They actually change. Um, see I'm not, I changed my mind on all the things. Um, they're generally similar. Um, but I'll often, especially, you know, so I do my, um, I enroll into my courses through sales calls and often I will use people who I spoke to who I think may have been the perfect client for me, but did not buy as the inspiration. Like what did that person need to know more to become my client that maybe wasn't clear and it wasn't going to come across in a phone call. So I love to use that as inspiration, a lot.

(30:24) Simon: Beautiful. I do something very similar. My morning routine is very similar and, uh, and then I go, I go running and before breakfast, before my kids have breakfast and so I go running and I usually listen to podcasts, but at some point I am touched by something. And it is usually I'm thinking of a friend who has also a business or if a friend and what I would, what I would like them to experience via their business. And then I stop and I do a quick, uh, live video, but I really picture this one person. I am, it goes to more persons, but I, I speak to one really to one. So like it, and it happens automatically because my heart only connects to one person at a time. That's how I'm wired. I can only speak the one verse, but, uh, but it really is like, I am talking to this person and I never know who's really watching, but I talked to this person. Yeah.

(31:25) Jane Sagalovich: And it's so much more natural for us to do that. You know, we're, we're used to having conversations. And I know so many people, like if they're thinking of doing their first Facebook live, or even recording a course or a webinar or whatever it is, they're like, how do I talk to this vacuum? It's like, you don't just talk to one, talk to your best friend, talk to whoever, you know, whoever inspires you.

(31:43) Simon: It was so terrifying. The first time we did this show, it was, uh, there in my living room and we had three cameras, one camera man, last low shout-out Laszlo. You are the best. So he would come here with three cameras, a lot of lights. We would change everything where the couches are and then create a studio out of it. And then I was wearing a tie and a suit, three years ago and a half year ago. Yeah. And so, and I was so nervous and I would say last night, who am I speaking to? And he says, look at the camera and imagine you're talking to a friend and that was so helpful. And for months it felt absolutely stupid to talk to a camera, no person there, but now in the pandemic, it comes in really handy.

(32:35) Jane Sagalovich: We've gotten used to it. Yeah. There's so many things. We're all like, yeah, well, this is, this is this life now. Yeah,

(32:41) Simon: No, I can talk to any object

(32:46) Jane Sagalovich:Things you learned in the pandemic, how to talk to objects.

(32:51) Simon: Dang. This is so amazing. Where can people, uh, stay in touch with you?

(32:56) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. So my website is scaled genius.com and I always have the latest, even that just up on the front page and you can find my blog there. My freebies are linked to there and I think, and then down at the bottom is all my social media handles. So that's probably the easiest way to just pop in and learn everything. And, um, I'm on, I'm on all the social media. So, um, you can search by my name or by the company scale your genius and connect with me in any anywhere, anywhere you want

(33:26) Simon: And who should be my next guest.

(33:28) Jane Sagalovich: Yeah. You know, um, my friend, Becca Lee Boff, she's actually a childhood friend. Uh, we were cheerleaders together in high school and she has an amazing marketing branding and PR firm also here in Denver. And what I love about the work she does, she used to work for Vail resorts, stars, entertainments, and really, really big names. And she's able to take some big business best practices and apply them to, she now works with small businesses and apply them to small businesses in a way that really helps them stand out from the noise. So she has some really, really awesome branding and PR expertise that she can share that I know people would love.

(34:08) Simon:One last question. How much has being an immigrant coming from the Ukraine to the US shaped you as an entrepreneur?

(34:20) Jane Sagalovich: I talk about it being the American dream, and I think what it allows me to see the opportunities that we have here, um, from a very optimistic, um, abundance view that I think some people who've had those their entire lives don't see the amazing potential that is available, the resources, the supports. Um, it is so easy to be an entrepreneur in this country. Um, you know, coming from a country where you couldn't have your own business at all, I'm just continually in awe of what I am able to create an experience and how supported I get to be in the process. Um, so I think just being aware of the difference of, um, not having anything at all, versus having it all, you know, right in front of me, if I choose to claim it, I think has been a really profound, uh, gift that, that I'm able to harness.

(35:26) Simon: Thank you so much, Jane, for sharing your journey and your wisdom with us and keep rolling.

(35:31) Jane Sagalovich: Thank you for having me. This is a really fun conversation. Bye bye.

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